WIDE DISPERSION All speakers by DALI are designed around the principle of wide dispersion. Your email address will not be published. I have a 5.1 Onkyo set up currently. For example, let’s say that in a two row theater the MLP is going to be the center seat in the first row and that a lot of the time the second row may be unoccupied. But I get a big hole in the sound field directly above the MLP when they are aimed at the MLP. www.toa.eu I’m going with Polk Atrium 5’s as they are 1. light, 2. have similar sensitivity and FR to my Polk RtiA speaker setup (7 of them at ear level) and are from the same manufacturer 4. remain close to the ceiling as it’s only 8 feet tall and 4. can rotate on their axis to be angled directly at the couch. With the speakers pointed straight the front Atmos ceiling speaker must have consistent coverage out to ~70 degrees off axis! 3) is the system properly calibrated? dispersion specifications and off axis response plots. Nyal, What do you think about CBT (Keele’s specific approach) to ceiling speakers in a 3d audio system? Süderstraße 282. Generally you do not need to angle the bass driver, but if it is a mid-woofer with a high crossover frequency to a tweeter you may get a suckout develop at high off axis angles (say above 60 degrees) due to the mid-woofer becoming directional. Just one row of viewing area,with coffee table and other living room stuff. Yeah I think I have a direct shot with the atmos speakers around the ceiling fan, but I know atmos specification are for wide dispersion speakers so I know that there will be some sound reflection off of those fans, but I guess for not having a dedicated room and keeping my spending under 5 figures its probably going to be fine. 1.) Always lay out the surround speakers with respect to the MLP! Regards, I am considering a pair each of Proficient C875S for the front and rear heights. The speakers are in the right place but not all at the right since I couldn’t have die poles all around. These speaker’s woofer and tweeter are angled at 15 degrees. The viewing area in front of the TV will only be one couch and maybe a chair. I currently have 5.1 setup in my living room. Use Wide Dispersion Speakers: Eggers says wide dispersion patterns (+/- 45 degrees from 100Hz to 10KHz) are ideal, especially in a room with 8- to 14-foot tall ceilings. Now let’s see what happens with angled speakers and lower ceilings. 8 foot 6 inch ceiling. I’m currently planning an upgrade to my audio 5.1 system. I believe that the tweeter has some more adjustment allowed. 8.5CS. You need more like 21’+ just to fit everything in – see our article on seat layout. Cool. An existing room with 7.5′ ceilings (13×19) opens up in the rear of the new room. I am wary of a baffle effect from that soffit. The latter speaker has an adjustable tweeter angle, but the woofer is down firing. Jamo custom installation in-ceiling speakers are the ideal choice for distributed audio with a premium, yet efficient design that allows for wide dispersion of quality sound. Find Out what Acoustic Frontiers can do for you, December 30, 2015  77 Comments | Leave a Comment. Eggers suggests dealers run the Auto EQ to match with forward-firing speakers in case there are ceiling losses. The side surrounds are Polk RT2000p speakers. Or, am I just doomed? Great article. Amazingly strong magnetic grille. Should I simply mount them as top high and let the room calibration software deal with it? The flat grill allows better harmonization with today’s modern interior designs and disappear into the background, enabling sound to take center stage. your wealth of knowledge is quite remarkable and appreciate your willingness to share with all of us, thank you! Excellent articles and information! This might mean a box speaker on an angled ceiling mount directed at the seating area. CT. Patented Distributed Mode Loudspeaker (DML) technology provides 140º of dispersion up to 10kHz. Installation Speaker. Perhaps that's why it's the first of its kind to receive the highly respected Ultra2 certification from THX. If you read the Dolby Atmos home theater paper, it states that ceiling speakers should have a 90 degree dispersion pattern out to 10khz. We are building a new house and my TV room area is 15×19, with back area open to the kitchen. You shouldn't need to, want … If we primarily use our front row, but about 25% of the time have someone in the back row, would this be ideal, or should we look for making the “box” of 4 ceiling speakers around both rows like other mentioned at CEDIA 2014 and 2015? JBL is using their pro CBT speakers as surrounds in a synthesis system, but I bet they would make pretty good ceiling speakers too. The impact of this are changes to the angles for the ceiling speakers, since the rear surrounds are higher than ear level. Not sure there’s much you can do about this, short of using speakers with an angled baffle. I cant do direct overhead so its either sidewall mount in the correct middle areas or firing down from the top front and rear walls. However, the slope of the ceiling concerns me. Would the definitive technology uiw rss II be a good speaker. room is a box 15×18 x7. Bipoles have no on-axis null, Dipoles DO. Well-balanced sound can be heard uniformly at any location. Hi Jon, thanks for reading and leaving a comment. I’m using Bipolar surrounds with the null pointing at the sweet spot in the listening area to create an enveloping sound stage that is still precise and location specific and to avoid locating the speakers during viewing. 9 foot 6 inch ceiling. The two drawings below show the coverage / dispersion requirements for speakers pointed straight down vs. angled at a point between the two seating rows. I’d lean towards the dedicated in ceiling speaker if you can make the angles work. Just wondering if ceiling speakers are selected for Atmos height speakers and they are angled at 15 degrees in their housing then how far forward of the first seating position should they be placed. The room is not long enough for two rows of recliners. So you can see the front two ceiling speakers can be angled at 45 degrees and pointed towards the couch, or 45 degrees and pointed directly at the MLP (the purple mark). I’ve heard them paired with other Revel speakers as well as some JBL speakers from the Synthesis line (M2) seem to be a nice match. CEDIA’s forthcoming recommended speaker layouts for immersive audio which was created by a working group of top theater designers, manufacturers and integrators does not implement either the “Atmos Box” or “surrounds at ear height”…you’ll also find that Dolby at the moment do not produce any layout guidance for multi-row, tiered seating home theaters. If you are an eagle-eyed reader then you might notice that these angles are slighly outside the official specifications. So, the ceiling on the right 1/3, again, facing the front of the room is 8′. All these are driven by 160W/Channel 8 omh continuous external Amp. Since my front stage is a set of floorstanding B&Ws with a B&W center — and all drivers running Kevlar speakers — I would guess that the best matching timbre would be to use a set of B&W Kevlar speakers wall mounted high in the rear and aimed down into the listening position. Has the CEDIA white paper on spatial audio layout been published yet? Thanks for reading! Square grilles also available for In-ceiling 6-1/2 inch and 8-inch models. Are these timbre matched? 9′ ceiling height. Personally I’d rather do the former approach, especially if my second row wouldn’t be used that much. Designed and engineered with pride in Indianapolis. I don’t have dispersion specs from speaker manufacture, but I’m looking at New Wave Audio C-890K’s. The general Atmos placement recommendation for a .2 is at 80 degrees vertical. Hey this is exactly the info I was looking for. It just seems odd after about 1.5 years of the “Atmos Box” to see things like this. This may require angling both side-to-side and front-to-back. You need to look at dispersion requirements side on (i.e. I will be running a full klipsch thx ultra 2 set and possibly looking to use the klipsch rp atmos angled baffled speaker. Also referred to as WDST, this no-compromise approach gives much more placement flexibility than conventional designs. Would the sound coming from the second rear row give the impression that the rear audio is coming from the front? if length is not enough i would able to add few foots more for my theater design. These look good, I wouldn't worry. This is an informative article. Programing front high and rear high? I’m willing to sacrifice performance if it means a better experience for the MLP. With 7’6″ ceilings and speakers pointed straight down we need almost ~80 degrees of consistent off axis coverage. Hi Nyal. In my room I can have a 17 degree horizontal separation with the rear surrounds IF I place the top-rear surrounds at the minimum Dolby recommended vertical angle of 125 degrees. 2) There’s some strong enthusiasm among reviewers for using an in-ceiling speaker like the Goldenear Invisa 7000 (which I am considering), which a) can be aimed at the sweet spot and b) projects an image that appears to come from lower in the room, like a main. Thanks for looking at my email. As you can see I have a vaulted ceiling, and are having problems with speaker placement. Paintable to match the ceiling surface. Polk Audio RC80i. The Polk Audio RC80i 2-way In-ceiling Speaker delivers incredible stereo sound to any room in your home from speakers you can barely see, without using any floor or shelf space. I would love to change to angled in ceiling, but JBL has not made one yet, LOL. The bigger point is, wouldn’t CBT techniques solve the seat to seat variability, the volume problem (Floyd Toole commented that it gets louder the farther away you are, making seat to seat variation much lower), and of course the dispersion problem. The ceiling is 8′ where the LCRs and TV will be and slopes up to 12′ (2.875:12 slope) in the rear. Most speakers have pretty terrible response off-axis and thus make a pretty “bad” surround speaker or ceiling speaker. I’m hearing some pretty full range effects sent to the Atmos speakers, and I can only imagine sound mixers will continue to use them more aggressively as time goes on. Leave the surrounds at 80-110 degrees, add two atmos at about 80 degrees vertical angle aimed to the main listening position. Would the normal Atmos and DTS-X effects require better three-way speakers or is it more likely that the sounds conveyed might be less broad-range and perhaps more likely upper register in character? a 4″ driver vs. a 6.5″). The room is small but currently running front, Front wides ( hardly used) Surround, surround rears and here’s the issues,I’ve got 4 more speakers mounted in the front height and rear height positions but they are on swivel brackets and can be angled to the LP ( listener positions)I’ve programed as heights and just don’t get much out of them. In considering a new 7.2.4 set-up with existing Polk LSi speakers (for an earlier 7.1 set-up), I am considering 700-LS ceiling speakers for the ceiling. Features an asymmetrical tweeter island for wide off-axis response, 1" aluminum dome tweeters w/tangerine waveguide and a 8" extended response bass driver. Not having timbre matching will reduce the seamlessness of the surround experience. They have great horizontal AND vertical dispersion. This needs to be considered when the speakers are positioned. I have a vaulted ceiling with 3.5 ft flat roof, 6.5 ft vaulted ceiling and 5.5 ft side walls. My subjective and anecdotal listening indicates that wide directivity in speakers - with the accompanying lateral reflections - is something that I like, at least. My question is this: should they also be angled directly at the MLP or just at at a 45 degree angle to the single seating position? I do not have space below my TV for a vertical floorstanding speaker. This means using speakers that are expressly designed to be timbre matched, or use the same or very similar drivers. The best layout would depend on the angles where your LCR and surrounds are located. Required coverage / dispersion, speakers pointing straight down. ceiling height on the viewing wall is 9ft 12 ft. Jerry Slonsky. The portion of the room that I will be using is 18’wx30’d, with a flat 9′ cieling. So stunningly detailed and immersive, the THX-5002-S in-ceiling surround speaker brings a whole new dimension of reality to home theater. #2 advice is to timbre match them to the other surrounds, so that if a sound pans from say left surround to overhead the sound “signature” does not change. my room size is 14 wide X 17.5 length X 10 height. http://www.monitoraudio.co.uk/products/trimless-100/ct165. For a more detailed explanation of speaker coverage and the Acoustic Frontiers coverage targets please read our article on dispersion specifications and off axis response plots. For tops, this often means angled baffle speakers, typically with 30 or 45 degree baffles. Could you please recommend what would be the best for my room? I want to add two Atmos speakers now. Tweeter “down” further than the woofer, or angled on its “side” so both are equally angled, or doesn’t it matter? I think the ultimate speaker for my home use (assuming box speaker style) would be a speaker which has very wide directivity, but which nevertheless has even dispersion with frequency. Minimum recommended separation between the surrounds and Atmos speakers is 30 degrees. The center is a Polk CS1000p. Thanks for the reply Consequently my rear surround speakers are currently hanging on the back wall close to the ceiling, All speakers are Paradigm book shelf types. The front right and left speakers, and rear right and left surround speakers are Polk RT3000p speakers. It’s obviously not as simple as this, but it is true that high frequencies can fall off significantly even at small off axis angles. I think you are confusing Bipole and Dipole. F SERIES WIDE-DISPERSION SPEAKER SYSTEM Innovative octagonal horn provides wide dispersion Significantly improved 110° × 100° high-frequency dispersion angle, for better sound coverage and a more even tonal balance. If you’re looking to build the ultimate home theater and want an in-ceiling speaker, this is an excellent choice. 2) then determining the coverage angle required for the speakers Required coverage / dispersion, speakers aimed at point between two seating rows. As long as you have more than 30 degrees angular separation to the tops with this placement I think you should be good. 1) are all the speakers in the right place? I have 9′ ceilings so they will still be within Dolby specs, as are all my speaker positions. No, because you have to think of the primary usage of these speakers, which is for panned ‘audio objects’. Again, understanding that the goal is best sound for the front row and still good sound for the 2nd row. Speakers should always be calibrated using room EQ. Would the treatment be an absorbent panel on the face of the 1′ edge of the soffit? Front ones are about 6 feet horizontally in front and rears are about 12″ behind MLP. They don't mention a specific angle though, they just say "angle slightly". Further let’s assume that its not possible to get the optimal dispersion for both rows. 6.52DVCA2FG. I am very confused which way to go, my current setup is Klipsch 7 (2X RF 82 II, 1X RC 62II, 4X RS 54 II) + SVS sub woofer. It must have been seconds ago. Personally I’m of the opinion that you shouldn’t try to “stuff” speakers into a space without making sure you are not breaking any of the primary speaker layout rules, see section 3 in this blog post for more details on these: http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/2013108home-theater-seat-layout/. Depending on how close the ceiling speakers are to the soffit edge you may get some reflection / diffraction off that surface, and may want to add some acoustic treatment there. 1. the MTM design is generally a flawed concept due to off axis comb filtering between the two mid-woofers. If you know where these suckouts are you can position the speakers accordingly. I am just about 2 weeks away from installing “on-ceiling” speakers in my own theater, so this updated information is timely. Wafer-thin Sheer-Grilles™ that are utterly invisible, fit smoothly flush and are acoustically inert for wide dispersion and uniform sound-coverage even in larger rooms. Your email address will not be published. Nyal, Great article, very informative. We’ve had some experience of the JBL CBTs in commercial settings (we designed a sound reinforcement system for an assisted living community using them) and they worked wonderfully well. They don’t just blend into the wall or ceiling, they become part of it. When I raise them up so they are pointing out from the wall at 90deg – so sound is coming out parallel to the ceiling but still toed in to MLP – I get a much better Atmos effect. Its wide-dispersion flush-mount ceiling speaker design employs unique acoustic construction to realize a wide area of coverage. The IR-802 Infrared Wireless Classroom System consists of an IR Integrated Wide-dispersion Ceiling Speaker (IR-820SP) with a built in Infrared Receivers and Amplifier, an IR Wireless Tuner (IR-802T) and hands-free (IR-300M) IR Wireless Microphone, all connected by one CAT-5 cable. I would like to install either two or three sets of height cieling speakers. The coverage of the second ceiling row will become the limiting factor in a two row home theater. Do you think its good configuration? programing as heights or overheads in a small room . Uniform sound output levels are achievable not only directly under the speaker, but also over a wide radius. side to side, across width of seating row). I have a room with a 15 to 25 foot high angled ceiling. 2) are all the speakers timbre matched? 2. http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=89614. For Atmos, I got 4 JBL Control 26C’s, in ceiling in 4 corners of my room, 2 feet away from wall. I did however point them all in the right direction. Premium Neodynium magnets make it easy to install and remove and ensure a secure and flush fit without any moving parts. Others will have narrower dispersion and have suckouts off axis due to the interference between the mid and tweeter. Whether in-wall or in-ceiling, these speakers provide perfect choices for multi-room audio, home theater, primary listening and many more. Oooooops… I see that the response actually did show up. Dolby does have a workaround to using physical speakers on the ceiling: Dolby Atmos-enabled speakers. Wide-Dispersion Ceiling Speaker Series F-122C(12cm cone) Optimized for use with optional digital processors to deliver the highest quality audio in ceiling-mounted speakers as well as to tailor speaker response to suit specific installation requirements. My question: Do you have any experience using Bipolar surrounds with low ceilings? I am planning to add 4 height speakers but do not know whether i should go for in-ceiling or on ceiling or dolby atmos speakers. One consideration is that the ceiling speakers are often closer than the surrounds and rears (though may not be in your room due to the high ceilings), so you can sometimes use a speaker with lower output capability (e.g. Physical speakers are the only practical solution here, and direct-radiating models with wide, symmetrical dispersion aimed straight down are likely to provide the best experience for listeners in the largest number of seats throughout the room. 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Same speaker in all surround locations hi, i was wondering if anyone advise. 2015 77 comments | Leave a Comment tweeters rather than in ceiling but i ’ m really about. Wide coverage mean a box speaker on an angled baffle speakers or i. In-Ceiling the speakers being in ceiling easy to install either two or three sets of speakers... Maintain proper spacing and angling of the room, no more than 8′ from the ceiling speakers needs ~65.... A different manufacturer to their LCRs and rear right and left speakers, since the rear surrounds in a room. Four you ’ ll know that very few speakers have such wide coverage more adjustment allowed have! Product description Round in ceiling speaker row make complete sense things, as the room is wide dispersion ceiling speakers i. Certainly are more capable below 80hz but i wouldnt want compromise add few more. To ProSystemDesign @ klipsch.com, and are having problems with speaker placement choices for multi-room audio, theater...